Today’s Drifting Thoughts: Sex and Attraction

It’s been a while I didn’t use the friends-only tag, but considering the sensitivity of the post which discloses quite a fair deal of personal history, I guess it has to be posted as friends only (which is outside the loop of my real-life social circle). But just to be safe, I had LJ-cut it, as much as it’s only a deep discussions with my thoughts about sex, attraction and the the possibility of love which may or may not arise from such urges.

Note: I did some small edits which I filter out the introductory fluff and some annoying error messages and added some translation notes

Update (29 Aug): Did some editing and I’m surprised that I accidentally deleted two sentences that were quite important (but it only amounts to missing clues) and the omission cause a small break in between the conversation

Felix Leong: well… put it in plain terms
Felix Leong: that particular colleague of mine is resigning
Allen: i see
Allen: well this let you move on more easily too
Felix Leong: well… probably
Felix Leong: not all the willing to let it go, as much i know i should ^^||
Felix Leong: after all, it happened three times straight
Felix Leong: it can’t be good ^^||||
Allen: LOL yeah true
Allen: if next time it were to happen again are you able to give up easily b4 u fully in love with the straight guy him?
Felix Leong: i think would be likely to be a pattern waiting to be repeated
Felix Leong: most i can do is to do my best to improve myself to strive to break the pattern
Felix Leong: … or, if there’s luck, find that so call match in heaven
Allen: anyway i guess maybe you should rethink when you found him to be straight
Allen: that you willing to go thru this pain again or not
Felix Leong: heh :p
Felix Leong: well… it’s often the case that i put the one that i liked higher than myself
Felix Leong: so if i happen to like another straight guy all over again, guess i’d end up going thru that all over again
Felix Leong: i think it comes down the quality of it
Felix Leong: i guess
Felix Leong: well… in a way, that’s the price that i have to pay if i wanted to make it happen
Felix Leong: albeit not likely
Allen: hopefully by them i able to give you a slap to wake you up :P
Felix Leong: as if i’d expose that crush until it’s too late for you to do anything about it
Allen: ahh… by then i guess nothing we can do but to hold hands and to thru it again
Felix Leong: haha
Felix Leong: well…
Felix Leong: but i think a few post in the past i did mention that i’m toeing the line
Felix Leong: not sure it’s something that i’d like to discuss it atm
Allen: haha ok ok
Felix Leong: but essentially my current labelling of homoflexible (yes, it’s a term alright :p)
Felix Leong: despite the fact that i’m physically inclined towards males
Felix Leong: but starting to become a bit asexual already
Allen: LOL! you dun hv sexual drive or urge anymore?
Felix Leong: not particular that case
Felix Leong: more like at the moment it’s an extremely unstable energy
Felix Leong: and the fact that i kept on reminding myself that feelings of lust does not necessarily mean that’s the kind of attraction that i wanted
Allen: are you sure on that theory?
Felix Leong: not 100% sure yet
Felix Leong: sort of toying with it atm, to be extremely honest
Allen: i see
Felix Leong: physical urge can serve as a good indicator
Felix Leong: but does not necessarily mean that it’s something that you’d want to immediately hit off the bat
Felix Leong: almost like you pass thru some hottie and you get a hard on, it does not necessarily mean that you want to hit a homerun with him, right?
Felix Leong: but with someone you are particularly familiar with
Felix Leong: being friends with, and the feeling changes that you started to feel attracted to him
Felix Leong: that’s more of an indicator than something that can be acertain
Allen: at times u may want to get to know him if u had the chance and how know u might hit it off…everything has possibilities
Felix Leong: mhmm
Felix Leong: that’s the thing
Allen: even u had sex with a guy and feelings n r’ship might come afterwards
Felix Leong: but the problem is that due to our repressions and probably also depends on our beliefs, having sex will, if done without detachment, cause you to cling to that person
Felix Leong: because, in a way, having sex gives you that particular physical security and/or association with that person
Allen: true
Felix Leong: so let say suddenly you had a hard-on with a friend, would that be a good indicator that you’re starting to fall for him?
Felix Leong: that’s a tricky question to answer
Felix Leong: as there’s a lot of factors that might be triggering that reaction
Allen: well not really
Felix Leong: (altho obviously, in a way, i’m starting to avoid the issue and deviating the whole conversation ^^|||)
Allen: it’s up whether u got cling with that particular person or not :P
Allen: ok ok
Felix Leong: haha
Allen: at least that what happen to me
Felix Leong: haha, at the moment piecing together my experiences does cause some confusion and i’m sewing together the pieces, i guess
Felix Leong: but there’s no denial that the physical security/association with a person after having sex was a strong one indeed
Felix Leong: (as much i have to say that that feeling dates back to my first encounter (note, not crush))
Felix Leong: sort of trying to sort out my deepest fears, i guess
Allen: oh u had sex?
Felix Leong: umm… yea
Felix Leong: i remembered that i disclosed that to u b4, but never mind ^^||
Felix Leong: that’s dates back to my high school days with one of my gay friend actually
Allen: aww ok ok
Felix Leong: … which he gets bullied often
Allen: i understand that feeling ._.
Felix Leong: mhmm
Felix Leong: basically that experience does have an impact with my views on relationships and sex
Allen: i see whats ur view on it?
Felix Leong: so u want me to time travel back then or just want to hear the summary?
Felix Leong: well… as in my thoughts and feelings back then and those that have not found a resolve yet now
Felix Leong: << time travel
Allen: haha if you want the brief version one also can haha
Felix Leong: anyway, short history (which may or may not serve any purpose, but having the side effect of making you horny if you like to hear true accounts of ppl’s experiences)
Felix Leong: the first time when we started is around Form 4, i guess
Felix Leong: when he tends to hint on me and several friends on whether we would want to try some mutual masturbation
Allen: ok
Felix Leong: of course, it was sort of being pushed aside in our conversations
Felix Leong: well, you know, when these kind of things said out loud, even privately, of course the immediate response would be along the lines of “你傻meh?” (Translation: Are you crazy?!)
Allen: i c
Felix Leong: but there was one time that i gave in, and that was the time when everything break loose
Allen: this involves anal right?
Felix Leong: never had anal b4
Felix Leong: just mutual masturbation
Allen: i see
Felix Leong: (altho the initial invitation is to see each other’s penis)
Felix Leong: and you know sex, once you had once you’d end up wanting for more
Allen: mutual masturbation consider as sex?
Felix Leong: if i were to say this as a 25 year old, i’d say no
Felix Leong: but for a 17 year old, that i consider as something that had already cross one of the greatest taboo
Felix Leong: and feeling bad about it… but yet unable to resist that urge
Allen: i c
Felix Leong: i have to say that it it greatly affected myself
Felix Leong: and you know me, sometimes 口不对心¹
Felix Leong: so he pursue, i tried to resist, but from time to time, i can’t help myself but to fall for it
Felix Leong: especially after he gave me oral sex
Allen: ooo ic
Felix Leong: that feeling of guilt persist in me until like… recently (1-3 years ago?)
Felix Leong: the urge of wanting to have sex with him persist for that long
Felix Leong: only managed to let go now after i finally follow my desires to oral back to him
Felix Leong: guess that’s what forms my inhibition of insisting that lust cannot be taken as a strong indicator of falling in love with somebody
Allen: only if they think it’s lust
Felix Leong: but then again, the thing is that lust and love are often theoretically clear in boundary, but in reality, most of us are unable to tell them apart
Felix Leong: it’s as subtle as trying to figure out your racing heartbeat is because of a genuine attraction or you just simply want to hump that person
Felix Leong: or a combination of both
Allen: true it is quite similar
Allen: but then again it depends all on the guy u hump with
Felix Leong: not really
Felix Leong: at least i believe it’s a two person issue
Felix Leong: but since we aren’t able (or forever incapable) of ascertain the other, guess your point is valid
Allen: true it applys same with u also but if u were cling on that guy it depends on him
Allen: he’s either gonna make or break u in the end
Felix Leong: but typically
Felix Leong: when you are emotionally charged, forget about being logical
Felix Leong: your right brain has already taken complete control
Felix Leong: at most i can say is that ideally you should be completely involved in the act and yet detached from that person
Felix Leong: which is completely paradoxical
Allen: how to detach when u are totally cling to him?
Felix Leong: (at least from the surface of the issue)
Felix Leong: that’s the thing
Felix Leong: note that i didn’t define what you have to be “detached” with
Felix Leong: it’s a complete mystery
Allen: i see i see
Felix Leong: physically and emotionally, you are clung to the person
Felix Leong: no doubt about that
Felix Leong: so how does that “detachment” be possible? that’s the deeper question that i would like to discover
Felix Leong: probably not possible at all, but that’s what detractors would say
Felix Leong: without trying to understand it a bit deeper
Felix Leong: and passing judgement based on one’s ignorance
Allen: i know the only way i can detach from him is that i’m not into him and it is purely horny rumbble
Allen: at the 1st place
Felix Leong: but that’d be pure sex
Felix Leong: but if you want to experience the passion (i use this term assuming love is the highest plane you can get to), emotions have to be attached
would mean that you are having sex in your sleep
Felix Leong: or probably the other is humping on a “corpse” instead
Felix Leong: that’s what i’d put it
Allen: eww lol! that defys me to hv sex at the 1st place
Felix Leong: only physical level attachment would mean satisfying a hormonal urge
Felix Leong: but by saying “physical attachment”, i guess when we use that term, emotional attachment was there in some degree
Felix Leong: because the feeling that we call security
Allen: yeah
Felix Leong: so that’s why i mentioned the utopian ideal of “at most i can say is that ideally you should be completely involved in the act and yet detached from that person”
Felix Leong: we have just discussed the shallow definition of “detachment”
Felix Leong: but would there be a possibility that a deeper meaning does exist?
Felix Leong: but i suppose that’s something that we can’t discuss because we both aren’t aware of the answer
Felix Leong: … and another thing is that we already deviated far away from our topic ^^|||||
Allen: yeah lol!
Allen: but acually i didn’t hv much luck on ONS which i clinged on coz i dun go ONS
Felix Leong: ONS?
Allen: one night stand
Felix Leong: oh oka
Allen: the only puresex i did recently is with my ex anyway
Felix Leong: personally if i were to do it i’d feel like a corpse
Felix Leong: ._.
Felix Leong: puresex = ?
Felix Leong: to what degree? oral? or anal?
Allen: i once did anal early this year after the kl trip coz i wasn’t get wat i want from chris so i end up came back and got banged with my ex
Allen: recently is just oral
Felix Leong: okay, so i suppose your definition of pure sex is >= oral sex
Felix Leong: am i right?
Allen: yeah i guess, faintly
Allen: coz oral sex wasn’t emotionally attached on me as much as anal
Felix Leong: anal = pain = symbol of the degree of trust (thrust??? XDD)
Felix Leong: that kind of association
Felix Leong: i can understand that
Allen: i guess u can say that too bwahahah
were two things on my list that aren’t crossed yet
Felix Leong: but at the moment, i’m starting to feel indifferent with sex recently for some reasons
Felix Leong: not sure is it because: 1. i give up 2. i’m fulfilled 3. for some reason, i’m becoming indifferent with sex due to bad experiences
Allen: fulfilled? are you?
Felix Leong: that i’m not sure
Allen: i dun think anyone can be fulfilled with sex
Felix Leong: from surface value, then yes, for the most part i’m fulfilled
Felix Leong: but i’m not sure whether that stems from the fact that my fears has closed the doors for me to go deeper into sex
Felix Leong: or probably that i can’t imagine myself getting deeply involve with a person i loved
Felix Leong: probably some other factors that i have yet to discover myself yet
Felix Leong: it’s so hard to tell at the moment
Allen: ok ok
Felix Leong: hving that particular someone to explore that part of me is already a tall wish already
Felix Leong: at least that’s my current perception of the situation was
Felix Leong: so i’m fully qualified to be called “confused” in many ways
Allen: true
Allen: i think to be included is not yet discovered
Allen: 😛
Felix Leong: personally i do wonder the deeper aspects and sensations that can be discovered from sex
Felix Leong: in a way that goes deep into the spiritual plane
Felix Leong: but that’s also one of my theories which i’m unable to prove due to not opening myself to that physical possibilities due to various factors
Felix Leong: personally i’m not sure whether it’s something that can be found by randomly banging on someone i had the hots for
Felix Leong: but by popular belief that’s might be impossible
Felix Leong: (note “by popular belief”)
Allen: i see
Felix Leong: so in a way that why i said that i’m toeing the line
Felix Leong: for the most part wanting to open myself up but yet not willing to let my guard down
Allen: guess u’re not ready yet
Felix Leong: you can say that there’s a conflict of interest
Felix Leong: i’m not surprised when you said that
Felix Leong: but from the patterns and signs, you are probably right
Felix Leong: but somehow i’m in the thought of “if you aren’t ready for sex, you aren’t ready for love”
Felix Leong: and if i were to think it that way, it’s pretty funny to think that ppl start relationships with love
Allen: that can be correct too
Felix Leong: so does that make love not really love but just a pretext of a physical attraction call sex
Felix Leong: or in more layman terms, like = sexual attraction?
Allen: various way of attraction i guess
Felix Leong: personally i’m in the opinion that love is the most misunderstood word
Felix Leong: mhmmm
Felix Leong: but attraction may be subtlely sexual or obviously sexual
Allen: i wonder what answer you would get if u ask hetero ppl’s oppinion on love
Felix Leong: it’s either you are turned on by the outer or the inner
Felix Leong: answer would differ, i suppose
Felix Leong: but hearing a strong answer that resonates within our souls is something that i never experienced yet
Felix Leong: oops, ours = my
Felix Leong: an intuition that tells you that that person really understood love
Felix Leong: i suppose
Felix Leong: not meant to be scientific at all
Allen: would it be possible if discover from the out then the inner? at least that is the most cases in gay male r’ship
Felix Leong: it has to be that way
Felix Leong: there’s no other way round because you are not something that come from within that other person
(02:53:38) Felix Leong: but the “penetrating” factor (i mean the spiritual kind, not the humping kind) is something that is extremely hard to explain yet extremely crucial
Felix Leong: the essence of true love, i’d say
Felix Leong: or in layman terms is that the ingredient that “blends two person as one”
Felix Leong: which in a sense is paradoxical because that’s something that will never happen physically
Felix Leong: but when that blend between two person in a spiritual level does happen, i guess our intuition will be to catch it almost immediately if we are sensitive enough
Felix Leong: i.e. you won’t notice it if you are “blind” = ignorant
Allen: that is quite rare cases
Allen: as most male u know, rushing n sexual beings
Felix Leong: but having myself experience such energies, i personally think it’s possible
Felix Leong: more like “sensed”
Allen: it is possible
Felix Leong: altho not to that deep level
Allen: but it’s…kinda hard to achieve
Felix Leong: that’s why i still continue to identify myself as a homoflexible
Felix Leong: as much i believe it’s possible
Felix Leong: but sometimes the person who holds the key may not be the person you desired for the most
Felix Leong: that has to be understood
Felix Leong: your physical urge does not prove to be a strong indication of a possibility of love
Felix Leong: that’s my hypothesis at the moment
Felix Leong: if it’s a strong indication, then probably we would have seen more success stories than sob stories
Felix Leong: and that applies to both homo and hetero
Allen: rephrased: so meaning stop think of getting a man that u want but settle with the lesser one?
Felix Leong: yes and no
Felix Leong: i’m half-half on that part because it depends on your definition on “lesser”
Allen: less than perfect
Felix Leong: that also depends on your definition of “perfect”
Felix Leong: from my point of view
Felix Leong: so long you already defined your perception on what’s “perfect”
Felix Leong: that means everything else is not “perfect” anymore
Felix Leong: i.e. you limit yourself in a particular imaginary world that you want yourself to live in
Felix Leong: which in you may or may not be able to attain
Felix Leong: hence a ”perfect“ world is an ”imaginary“ world
Felix Leong: but the actual world it’s open to far more possibilities that is beyond your ”imagination“
Felix Leong: there’s actually a lot of things better that exist but we are incapable to conceive
Felix Leong: criteria should always be used as a tool but never as something that limit ourselves enclosed in our own space
Felix Leong: after all, rules are meant to be broken
Felix Leong: and… if by my intuition and logical thinking that person is perfect and yet does not fit into my criteria, should i reject it at all?
Felix Leong: that’s one of the most common human dilemmas that we face.
Allen: nod nod*
Felix Leong: well… at least that’s how i look at it at the moment
Felix Leong: granted it’s a complex world
Felix Leong: nothing is certain as much we hoped it to be
Allen: yeah
Felix Leong: and, say for instance, if i end up being with a straight guy
Felix Leong: the other would probably have made a great sacrifice
Felix Leong: from a legal (i.e. law) and social perspective, he sacrificed his sexual pleasures
Felix Leong: that can even be applied to his sexual preference conditions
Allen: then he won’t be str8 to being with
Felix Leong: not really
Felix Leong: also a yes and no answer
Felix Leong: when both people are in love, there may or may not be sacrifices
Felix Leong: i say that i’m a homoflexible, if i happen to blend with a girl
Felix Leong: can you say that i’m straight
Felix Leong: for one thing, this may cause me to sacrifice my physical pleasures
Allen: same thing as bi
Felix Leong: that’s why the world is complex
Allen: lol]
Felix Leong: sometimes what you wanted badly may turn out to be something that you’d end up not having
Felix Leong: after all, sexual preference is a criteria after all
Felix Leong: ideally a guy would give me one extra avenue to explore my hypothesis
Felix Leong: but if the one who can expands my visions to the infinite was a girl, am i suppose to reject that?
Felix Leong: of course, that’s under the assumption that love has to be discovered from relationships
Felix Leong: which may not be true
Felix Leong: but just to draw a point across
Allen: i guess it’s my a bit different view from you coz I refuse to accept anything other than a guy :P
Felix Leong: haha :p
Felix Leong: there’s no one single answer to everything
Allen: haha yeah
Allen: too much variation condition
Felix Leong: in the end, our answers, or at least our ”homework“ would be extremely unique
Felix Leong: because of our own expectations, world views, and experiences
Felix Leong: i’m going to copy part of the conversation today before i head to bed
Allen: lol looks like u’re gonna sleep late again :P
Felix Leong: it’s already damn late
Felix Leong: ^^||
Allen: lol
Felix Leong: but anyway, i do have to admit that the reason i reacted so strongly is because i’m in the dilemma myself, as in having the hots with someone else
Felix Leong: hence continuing this discussion at such a fierce pace :p
Allen: :P
Allen: i understand hehe